Mark Jones – Sales Director at University Games – on Buying Time, selling games… And being bold

Mark Jones! I’m so pleased to be talking about Buying Time… Thanks for joining me. What is Buying Time? And who are you?
I’m Mark Jones, the Sales Director at University Games. Buying Time is, as it says on the box, a game where you can buy yourself time – but it’ll cost you! The game is all about risk-taking… As you play, you decide how much time you need to buy for your team to answer questions before the timer runs out. Each team uses the time they’ve bet to answer verbally or act in charades. The more answers the team gets right, the more money they win!

Love it. And I’ll double down on what I said in February: Buying Time’s the the best party game I saw at London Toy Fair… Beautifully simple game with a clever bit of tech in it. What do you think makes it great?
I think the thing with Buying Time – like quite a lot of our family games – is the simplicity of it. At University Games, we like games you can pick up and play. I’m a very simple soul… You ask my family, they’ll definitely confirm that!

Ha!
So, when our family plays games – mostly at Christmas – we don’t want a game that needs hours of detailed concentration… We love a game you can play with ease while enjoying each other’s company. Buying Time is like that: pick up and play, brilliant fun and it opens fantastic conversation and interaction between the group.

Agreed! And do you tend to play games by University Games at Christmas, Mark? Or do other people’s get a look in?
Both. Christmas is when I tend to buy competitors’ games because I want to have a look at what’s out there in terms of competition. But I also pick a selection of our own games and some old favourites. One of the titles that tends to come out on a regular basis is from University Games: Who’s in the Bag? And when I think about it, Buying Time is a more competitive – yet inclusive – version of Who’s in the Bag? So in effect, we’ve taken something that’s a really good game and a top seller – Who’s in the Bag? – and given it a bit of a twist…

And what is the twist?
The twist being the mechanism inside and, in terms of the gameplay, the fact that players now open each round with a suggestion of how long they think their team needs to get the answer right: The lower amount of money you bet, the shorter the time you have. You can also choose from easy, medium or hard cards to affect the available winnings… So, you have multiple ways you can take a risk to win big! Your team needs to be bolder and braver to win against the other teams!

Yes. And the format makes it a great conversation game…
Yes, it leads to some really funny anecdotes! For example, I took this on a family holiday to Harrogate this year… We’ve got a lodge there; all our kids came along to celebrate my mother-in-law’s 85th birthday. When we started playing Buying Time the ‘heated conversations’ that broke out between the couples playing were fantastic fun! My son and his partner were incredible because as far as he was concerned, he knew exactly what he was describing on every turn…

Ha! And yet…
He couldn’t believe that his partner couldn’t guess what he was describing. And I’ve never seen my son get so competitive while playing a game! We thought this was unique to their team, but as the game continued, it was evident that all the couples around the table were going to fall into the same trap!

As the different teams play to win a pot of money, the rest of the group can watch on, which is, I think, a very humorous twist to the game. Then, the other nice thing about this game is, as we’ve mentioned already, the conversation it generates… You simply can’t understand why your teammates don’t say and do what YOU said and did!

Ha! Yes! “Well, why didn’t you just say this?”
Exactly! “If you’d said THIS, we’d have made it in time! So, as well as the game itself, there’s the conversation that comes from it. It creates a really simple yet social game, that brings people together – all sat with a smart piece of technology inside… There’s a sensor inside which reads the colour of the banknotes, adding it up as it goes and giving the team the time they’ve bought. So Buying Time is a quality product with simple game play and great content – and all at a good price point. Plus, we’ve had some great feedback on the strong packaging, which helps it jump off shelf.

It really does pop! And you mentioned the technology… To buy time for your round, you slide coloured banknotes into the unit…
Yes, that’s right! It’s very clever. The sensor inside sees the difference in the colours of the notes, which have different denominations of money associated with them, adding up time for the players to use in their round. It adds touch to classic and well-loved game play!

How did this come to be with University Games?
Buying Time, came to us via Mike Kohner. Mike Kohner’s been in the industry for as long as anyone can remember; a legend in the trade… I suppose you’d class him as a ‘superagent’. A huge variety of different inventors come to him with products. He adds a little bit of Mike magic to the pot; he showcases them at various places like New York… When he showed us Buying Time, we knew it was a really nice product.

And was it dressed this way? Or did it need a little tweaking?
It was very, very similar. I think we ended up tweaking the unit slightly. Also, the UK team spent a lot of time ensuring the cards were relevant to the UK market. So they’re some of the subtle tweaks we had to do.

Something else I’m curious about is how, over the past few years, some sales and marketing folk seem have more input into which products come to market. Do you have a say in whether or not something gets a look in at University Games?
It’s a really interesting dynamic at University Games UK. As you know, we have Gemma Lewington – the Marketing Director – me as Sales Director and Richard Wells; the big cheese, the grand fromage! We work really closely as a three. There’s not really a situation where Gemma and Richard would make a decision without my input – and Richard and I wouldn’t make a decision without Gemma’s input. That’s because of the way the market’s shaped nowadays…

How so?
Let’s face facts: going back to when you and I were whippersnappers, there wasn’t really online retail. When you or I wanted to buy something, we had to go to a shop. Back then, marketing was mostly limited to how a product looked in the box. Today, it’s about what’s in the box and what assets you can produce to tell a story through the screens people are glued to nowadays. So we look at our product offerings in a slightly different way compared to ten or 15 years ago… If Gemma looks at a product and says there are limitations on how we can market the product via a screen, or that there are challenges in getting the message across effectively, it can often make us question a good product.

Makes sense so far…
Now… We could go round the houses: Richard and I could offer ideas on what might help but – in truth – if we can’t market something online, a big portion of our retailer sales are at stake.

And is that a two-way street? Is there a flip side?
Yes – the flip side of this is that Gemma can look at a product and say, “I can do some really good stuff with this. I can really communicate this to the consumer…” I might then review it with my sales head on and feel, that despite the confidence in the product and market, I have to sell it and find a sales pitch that is as convincing… And my skills are nowhere as good as Gemma’s marketing skills, because she’s outstanding! Gemma’s the best marketing director I’ve ever worked with. So in principle, it’s finding that balance between what Gemma and I can do with a product in terms of getting it across to our buyers, as well as our consumers.

Brilliant! And what kind of challenges do you face putting something over?
I suppose my big bugbear is that buyers nowadays are under a huge amount of pressure. Many of them might have too many categories to buy for and it often leaves our category overlooked. The Buyers have hundreds of people like me sending emails that ‘talk up’ a new product… ‘This is the best thing since sliced bread… You need to stock it!’

Easy to get lost in the noise…
Exactly… I’m sure the buyers are left thinking ‘Not another one!’ Sadly, we don’t really get to see buyers in person a lot of the time, which is why fairs and shows are such an important time for us… We like to get as much contact time with the buyers as possible.

With the idea of the category being overlooked, something Richard often says about the toy and game category relates to supermarket sales… It really puts things into perspective: the reality is that they sell more pints of milk in five minutes than they do board games in a whole year. So where a new game sits in terms of all the buying priorities, needs a little perspective.

Wow. When you put it like that, it’s rather depressing!
We do get buyers who are completely dedicate to the Games and Puzzle category, but often we find buyers move around a fair amount, leaving it tricky for me to build long and trusted relationships.

And in what way might that better relationship help?
It helps because I can really understand what they’re looking for. Anybody who deals with me, Deej, will know – and this is one advantage of being slightly ancient and having done this for a lot of years – that I’m very good at telling people how it is. I don’t tend to dress things up.

If I believe a product is or isn’t a good fit for them, I’ll be honest with them. Not all of our product ranges work for all the buyers we talk to and I find the best thing is to be honest about what should be listed… That way, we all get a better sell through rate off shelf.

Because not everything suits everyone…
Not everything suits everyone, and if I understand what a buyer’s really looking for, I won’t waste their time or lose their trust by showing them something that simply doesn’t work for them. That’s just how I work. I’m very direct and honest. I’ll tell you one quick story on that… Over the years, I’d sent multiple emails to one particular retailer, asking if they’d buy some of my products. I couldn’t get their attention…

Eventually, I wrote him an email saying something along the lines of, “You’re probably not going to read this, but on the off chance that you do, and I’m not retired by that point, then could you please get in touch? Because I’m getting a lot older and I promised my Managing Director that – one day, before I go – I’d get some products in your store.”

Ha! That’s funny! And it was interesting earlier to hear about that triumvirate dynamic…
Yes. I’m very fortunate to work with a great Marketing Director, an okay Managing Director – ha! – and a great sales team. I’ve got a fantastic bunch of salespeople who really care – I think that’s so very important. They’re professional, they’re friendly, they’re helpful… They’re a really good bunch. And by the way, I’ve worked with some very interesting people over the years…

Ha! When you say Interesting….
I’ve worked with some seriously eccentric and mind-boggling people in the past, but I’d say – across the board – we’ve got a wonderful set of people in the office at University Games. I hate the words ‘senior leadership team’, but I can’t avoid those words here… We’ve got this really nice senior leadership team; we work well together. We’ve got enough respect for each other that we can be open and honest, which is really important. But we’ve also got a fantastic sales team, who have shown a clear dedication to UG over the years.

How did you come to be working at University Games, Mark?
In the toy and game industry, I was previously, with Cheatwell Games. I had several years there. Cheatwell Games is another business that grew from nothing to what it is now… Just from three guys at university. A little like Bob Moog – University Games. So, the Cheatwell guys built a business on a game called Masquerade. They produced it themselves, then they had the good sense to bring in a talented individual like me to head up the sales side. Eventually, of course, they found me out. Ha! Then I came to University Games. Do you know Bruno Gallone at John Adams?

Not personally. He retired before I got a chance to interview him.
Ah! That’s a shame. I worked with Bruno many, many moons ago. When he knew Richard Wells was looking for a Sales Director, he recommended me and here we are with seven years’ service under my belt at UG!

I’m curious: if you hadn’t had a career in sales, what would you be doing?
Oh, I’d be a chef! I’m surrounded by cookbooks – there’s a Mary Berry one on my desk here! I suppose the reason I love to cook is that sales is – get your little violin out – sales is a high-pressured job. It lasts until December the 31st and then, basically, on January 1st when we start again! With the sales get later and later every year, the stress gets slightly more and more! My little stress relief is to go into the kitchen and cook.

Love that. Great answer. To wrap things up, what – Mary Berry cookbook aside – is the most interesting object on your desk?
Ooh! The most interesting object on my desk would be this picture, I think…This is a cartoon of the house my family was living in when COVID happened. All the kids came home and – I know this sounds awful, but you understand the context – we had a fantastic time as a family. We watched telly together, we played board games, we had barbecues… We had eight months together which was probably the highlight of my life, in terms of getting all that quality time with the kids.

The nice thing, Deej, is that – if you ask my children – they’ll all say they enjoyed that time the most as well. So from a sentimental point of view, this picture reminds me of the family time which you don’t often get as your kids get older and are out more, or are in but on phones… So yes: we had this quality time where we just all enjoyed each other’s company. It was lovely.

Wow… I’m really moved, Mark. That’s lovely. And you really surprised me because your sense of humour was so northern all the way through that, and then right at the end you turned into a right southern softy!
Ha! I did; I’ve lost my northern street cred!

It was worth it, though. Beautiful. Thank you, Mark.

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