Senior Graphic Designer Zoë Ann Lee reveals the creative process behind Big Potato’s packaging

Hey, thanks for doing this. I’ll start by saying that – whenever I move – this chair makes a horrible farting noise… It’s not me; listen!
Okay! I believe you!

Honsetly! It is the chair… It’s very distracting – you hear those?
Yes… You just have to stay stock-still.

Yes… Although, to be fair, that last one was me. Alright… To the formalities! Who are you?
My name is Zoë Ann Lee. I’m a senior graphic designer for Big Potato Games. I was the second graphic designer after our creative director, Ben Drummond – and also the second employee at the company. So it was just the five of us; the three founders, James Vaughan and then me… And I’m still here ten years later; almost 11.

Amazing! We’ve interviewed James; people can find out more about him here. Do you remember the first thing that you did for Big Potato?
It was the first edition of Scrawl actually. I did that when I was an intern – we ditched it and re-did it, so the version that exists now was more of a collaboration with me and Ben… I don’t want take the credit for it, but that’s what I think of as my first game. I was very fresh at the time, so I had a lot of help. After that, I think I my first full one was Colour Brain.

Colour Brain is great! You say there you were fresh… Fresh out of what? What’s your background?
I’d done an illustration degree at Bristol UWE. So that’s where my Bristol roots began. I grew up in London, went to uni in Bristol, then came back to London – and back to Bristol again more recently… When I first left uni, though, I did a graphic design internship for about five months. When that was coming to an end, I went on the UAL job board, frantically searching for new opportunities. There was a posting for an internship at Big Potato. At the time, they’d had success with Linkee and were looking to make a business off the back of that.

Fantastic! So that’s your first game. What’s your latest? One you can talk about?
Last January, I worked on the first game in our kids range game called Stomp Stomp Chomp. That’s about to launch. Not long ago, I also worked on the card game Pounce.

Ah! Well, thank you for mentioning that! It’d be a little self-serving for me to bring Pounce up because it’s an idea that Matt Burtonwood and Billy Langsworthy and I worked on. I’ll say two things about that… First, that people can read an old interview with Matt Burtonwood here – and second, that I just LOVE what you did with Pounce!
Really?! Yay! I’m so happy!

I really do! So thank you so much for your excellent work on it. I say that most sincerely because when we pitched it to Big Potato, we felt it was a good game with a poor name – and no theme. It was a little underbaked!
Ha! I’m trying to remember now what the original name was…

You know what? To my point, I honestly couldn’t tell you! I’ll ask Matt. My question being, though, how does it work here? You got shown a game with a terrible name… Then what?
So Ed Naujokas and James are the front line between us and the inventors, as you know. When they see an idea that they think has potential, they write it up into a brief… And they pass the brief to our project management team. Then that team organises the timings of the project. They’ll think about where the project should be in a week or a month, when we need to stop coming up with Ideas and start designing, when the final artwork needs to be sent to the factory and so on. And then they take all that and the brief to the designer and a copywriter. So there’re pairs of us that work on the games, essentially.

Love this! I don’t want you to lose your thread, but I’m obliged to mention that Ed has done an interview with us as well. People can read that here… You were saying that you work in pairs?
Right! Recently, though, we’ve started a new process in which multiple designers come up with loads of ideas so that we get as many as possible at the very beginning. We sketch them all out and then we pitch them to all of the relevant parties. We stick them up on the wall – just a very rough sketch with a name and a bit of reference. The copy-and-design teams work in tandem to get as many possibilities onto the wall as possible… Then we just take stuff off if it doesn’t resonate.

Is there a science to that? Or a process? I can tell from your horrified grimace that there isn’t! Ha!
Ha! No, it’s quite instinctive. But usually, we’re all more or less on the same page with each other. Sometimes someone will champion something, but the whole thing is very democratic. And we can tell almost instantly whether people are inspired by an idea; you can feel it in the room… I’ll put something up and listen to the reaction. If I get a few people saying ‘Oh!’ then I’m aware of that – and, obviously, I’m aware if it’s just dead silence.

But at some point along the way, you must have had the experience of feeling really excited about something that other people don’t resonate with…
Oh, yes!

So does it still sting a little? Or have you become resilient to that over the last decade?
I think that – for me – the last ten years have been healthily humbling. You just have to lose your ego quite early on in this career or it’s going to be quite painful. The cliché is that we put so much of our creative selves into the work that we then take things personally when people don’t see it the way we do.

Quite so!
I think I’ve managed to get to a point where I don’t really get attached to anything at the early stages… Then, as things move forward, there’s a point where I do get attached to it and really love it and nurture it. But when it’s too early in the process, you just can’t.

That’s really interesting because, in my experience – I’m so sorry; that’s the chair again! I’m desperately trying not to set it off… You don’t remember Reggie Perrin, do you? Too young?
I know the name… A sitcom?

Yes, The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin. He unwittingly used to sit in chairs that made farting noises. Let me lean over here… I was saying your approach – in my experience – is the opposite of many habitually creative people… They’re more defensive when an idea’s brand new – but it sounds like you’ve managed to train yourself the opposite way…
Yes. And I would also say that because I’ve been with Big Potato for such a long time, my taste has been somewhat moulded by the people I’ve worked with for so long… We’re quite in sync, I think. I’m usually not totally off the mark before I go into a pitch meeting. It’s not an exact science but, as a general rule, I feel I know when the team’s going to like something. So it’s not often that I’m saying, “But guys! What about this one? Are you sure?”

Well, let’s reify that with Pounce and Letterhogs – with Letterhogs being a close second to Pounce as a name choice… I’m curious: what’s your process? How do you start creating a name or a theme or a look?
It always starts with us playing the game. Beyond that, my process for coming up with brands in general is to write the original name in the middle of the paper – just to have something to anchor to. Then I write down the emotions that came to mind while playing the game, and also words connected to the game play… So not the rules, but – with Pounce, for example – I wrote down ‘quick, energy, grab…’ All these things. And I sort of make a map of the vibe…

A map of the vibe?! I love that! You make a map of the vibe of the game… Like a paper brainstorm on your own?
Yes. And that gives me – I don’t know how best to describe it – a fizzing impression of the brand in my head. Then I start writing down anything that I think really encapsulates what the game’s all about. So it’s quite quick at this stage; I really don’t think about it too much; I’ll write down anything, really; even the most rubbish things. Just any old thing and any images that come to mind. It’s almost like channeling some kind of… what’s the phrase?

Stream of consciousness?
That’s exactly the phrase I’m looking for. It’s like a stream of consciousness. And then I gradually hone it and sculpt it into more-coherent ideas. After that, I just look at the whole thing and start asking myself if maybe there’s a little something here or there…

So I’m hearing that there’s no such thing as a bad idea early on; it’s quantity not quality. Then you start to refine it and intuitively narrow it down… And just to be clear, Zoë: are you doing this digitally? Or with pen and paper?
Oh, paper! I like paper. Initially, I’ll keep it really loose and hand drawn. I’ll just keep sketching stuff. But fairly quickly – when I’ve narrowed things down – I use Procreate on the iPad and then print it. And that’s exactly where the name and look for Pounce came from!

I love that! I love that there’s a little technique in there, a little art and a little alchemy! I also really liked the design for Letterhogs, by the way – but if I understand correctly, Letterhogs didn’t come about that way?
No, Letterhogs was Tris’s idea. He came up with loads of names – but Letterhogs stood out because it’s cute and it’s different and it kind of made sense.

Because you’re hogging letters…
Yes, exactly. So with Letterhogs, I just made something with a couple of hogs coming in from either side. There were actually a few different designs. We can probably share some if you’d like?

Oh, I would love that! I think this is really interesting for inventors so examples would be amazing. At some point, I’m assuming you do some sort of wider testing. On the name and the look, though?
We do a fair amount of testing, yes. I won’t go into exactly how that works, but we do test ideas against each other. We used to send quite rough sketches of stuff but, these days, the ideas are more or less finished in order to get the best impression… Things can change a lot between a slightly rough version and a more polished one, so we try to get the font and illustration as close as possible, although – usually – there are still tweaks to make.

Something else I find intriguing is that the name you went with – Pounce –doesn’t do what I naturally lean towards… Communicating the gameplay – which Tilt and Shout does, for example. Rather, Pounce communicates the spirit of the game – as you intimated earlier… What’s your thinking there?
It wasn’t necessary, I don’t think. Initially, some of the ideas on the board tried to demonstrate the game more – and it was probably just a case of what looks better? What’s more interesting? Also, Tilt and Shout has a centrepiece. It’s important to show that on the front so that people recognise the product from social media or whatever. But when it’s cards, it’s more about standing out in a sea of card games!

Terrific! Great insights. I’m curious: could you describe how your style has changed over the years?
Oh, my goodness! Immeasurably. It’s so different. And for some reason it turns out… I mean, confidence is just everything, isn’t it? At the very beginning I was just constantly deferring to others in terms of what was good and what was bad. And now I trust my own taste more. Also – at the beginning – the company would tend towards more gimmicky packaging solutions because the approach was more about getting people’s attention instantly – that was more of a priority.

Can you give me any examples of that?
Oh, we’d discuss putting things in a wonky-shaped box, or putting fur on it, or make it smell! It was quite out there. Over time, I’m not so much thinking about the wackiest form for a product to take. It’s more about the idea. It’s not as if we’re not going to do fun and interesting packaging, but it’s not necessarily the top priority. There’re other considerations too – for example, it’s more efficient to ship a load of boxes that fit in next to each other, obviously! Ha!

I think my own taste has changed too. I come from an illustration background, so I’ve always just had a real appreciation for good illustrations. But I think I’ve got a lot better at walking the line between being too kiddy and too adult with illustrations. At the beginning, I felt I was always falling on the wrong side of the line. Now I think I balance on the line a lot more easily and do something that appeals to both.

You said confidence is everything. Did you notice a change in your confidence gradually? Or was there one project where you noticed it more?
That’s a really good question…

Thank you! I’m glad you said that: I was going to keep going until you did!
Ha! I think it was gradual – and not linear. You know, you have little setbacks, but on the overall curve – thankfully – I’ve been heading in one direction. I do think Stomp Stomp Chomp gave me a boost. I worked on that last January, and I really felt like I was proud of every single bit of it. It just felt really solid; like there was none of it that I could have done better. It’s my favourite thing I’ve done.

Oh, I can’t wait to see it!
Oh god, I’ve bigged it up too much now! Ha!

Ha! I hear you! Alright, we need to start wrapping things up but let me ask you: what’s the one question I could’ve asked you today, but didn’t?
Erm… What’s my favourite Big Potato game?

Ah! And what is your favourite Big Potato game?
My favourite big Big Potato game is Okay Play…

Right… You could’ve said Pounce there, Zoë; flattered my ego…
Oh! Ha! Oh, no! I love Pounce! Pounce is up there… Definitely. I love Pounce!

No, too late! Ha! Don’t give me that flannel! You had an open goal… But you said Okay Play! That’s the one by the DJ…
Yes. DJ Wheelie Bag.

DJ Wheelie Bag, thank you. I’ll link to his interview here; extraordinary chap. What do you like about the game?
It’s an oldie, but I just love a simple game. It’s just so easy to get. Which is also why I like Pounce…

Ha! Okay! I believe you…
No, but – ha! – it’s actually true because it’s just really simple, and it’s so in our wheelhouse… Simple party games; very easy to show how it plays in five seconds or so.

Good answer! Thank you. And I’m pulling your leg, of course – Okay Play is wonderful. Last question, then: what’s the most interesting object on your desk?
You know, I have these weird Russian dolls that’re pigs. And the smallest pig in the thing is literally like the size of my little fingernail. So they’re pigs but they look like babushka dolls. They’re really funny to me! My partner got them from Germany, I think. They’ve been on my desk for ten years.

Sounds fun. Hey, you’ve been wonderful! I loved every second of this except for you snubbing Pounce and the chair making farting noises – those things aside, I’m chuffed to pieces!
Oh, good! Me too!

Alright. Let’s go and take a photo of these babushka pigs!

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