Educational Insights’ Lisa Guili on TikTok, 20 years of Kanoodle – and ten million sales

Lisa, thank you so much for making time. Before we get into Kanoodle, I’m curious about your surname. How do I pronounce it?
It’s spelled G-U-I-L-I, but it’s pronounced ‘Julie’ – just like the girl’s name. It’s from Italy, actually. It’s supposed to be G-I-U-L-I, but somewhere along the line it got transposed.

Does it have a meaning? Looking at you, I’m guessing it means ‘powerful woman.’
Wow! I’ll take that! That’s what it means from now on; I’m putting it on every business card!

Ha! Brilliant! Lisa Guili – powerful woman! Now, to my astonishment, Kanoodle is celebrating its 20th anniversary. You must be chuffed to bits. For anyone unfamiliar with it, how do you describe it?
It’s funny because we always used to describe it as a single-player brain teaser with hundreds of challenges, so you could pretty much play it forever. But over the past five years, thanks mainly to TikTok and YouTube, it’s evolved. It’s still a single-player game, but people also solve the puzzles together online. And originally, we thought we were just providing a booklet full of puzzles to solve, but now our community of Kanoodlers has gone well beyond that. We even had a 17-year-old create the Kanoodle Shake Challenge on TikTok back in 2022.

Shake Challenge?
Yes! You take one, two or three pieces and shake them on the tray, let them land randomly… And then solve the puzzle from whatever position they end up in – or challenge each other to solve them.

Holy moly! Presumably that occasionally throws up a mathematically impossible puzzle, does it?
It does, but experienced players can spot that almost immediately. There are certain dead giveaways… If there’s one exposed hole in the wrong place, say, you’ll know it’s impossible and simply shake again. But the majority of random layouts are solvable. Other players go even further… They’ll invent completely new challenges by leaving one piece out, or by putting four specific pieces in the corners. They’ve taken Kanoodle somewhere I don’t think we ever imagined it could go.

And as well as a very engaged community, you also have a lot of Kanoodles, don’t you? Wait… That sounds wrong!
Ha!

I mean to say you have a number of variations on the original game!
Yes, and one of the variations we launched a couple of years ago, Kanoodle Ultimate Champion, has a built-in timer. It’s funny because that idea actually came directly from the community. People were already using timers on their phones, so we thought we’d build one in. We even added an increasingly frantic click, click, click as the countdown reaches the end to ramp up the tension. So it really makes you feel harried towards the end.

Harried! I love that that’s the word you reached for! I was going to say stressed – I don’t think I could cope; the last thing I need is a timer nagging me.
Ha! It definitely stresses people out – but they love it! You’ll see comments saying, ‘This is making me so anxious!’ followed immediately by, ‘I can’t stop playing!’ So people really love the game.

You remind me of my friend KT… She absolutely adores Kanoodle, but she’d lost one of the pieces just before she was about to go travelling. Crestfallen! Anyway, I learned about this the morning that I was going to see her off at the airport – too late to order one online… And none of the local shops had one in stock. Eventually, I tracked one down in a pawnshop – I don’t know what that’s called in America…
A pawnbroker; a pawnshop – it’s the same…

Oh, perfect! So anyway, I rushed across town to collect it and handed it to KT at the airport. Lisa, she nearly cried! I’ve never seen anyone react so emotionally to what one might think of as a little travel puzzle…
Oh, wow! I have to tell you, that goes down as one of the best stories I’ve heard about Kanoodle… Thank you for that! The fact that you actually went and found one and then took it to the airport is fabulous.

I suppose it’s because it is just perfect for planes, trains, airports and the like. That aside, why do you think people have fallen in love with it? Why has it sold over 10 million units?
I think it’s a couple of things. First, there’s a real simplicity to it. Yes, there are hundreds of challenges, but at its heart it’s just about fitting pieces together. I also think people increasingly want to step away from their phones and do something tactile.

Also, there’s something really satisfying about the clickety-clack of the pieces – almost an ASMR quality. And one of my colleagues said something interesting recently… He called it progression theory: players start with an easy puzzle, solve it, then immediately want to try something a little harder. Then another. And another. You’re constantly pushing yourself just a little further.

That’s incredibly shrewd! I wonder what would happen if neuroscientists looked at someone’s brain while they were playing it… I suspect you’d see a huge release of endorphins every time they solved a puzzle. So when did you first realise something unusual was happening with this game on TikTok, Lisa?
That was around the middle of 2021. Our social media manager spotted people playing Kanoodle on TikTok. One account in particular really stood out; a maths teacher called Silent Math. She’d started posting videos of herself solving the puzzles, almost as a break from all the maths content she was making… But those Kanoodle videos absolutely exploded. We reached out to her and asked if she’d like to create more content, and things really snowballed from there.

Having said that, my favourite story is actually about the teenager who invented the Kanoodle Shake Challenge. He got Kanoodle in his Christmas stocking in 2021. On New Year’s Eve, he went live on TikTok with one viewer helping him solve puzzles. 12 months later, he had 5,000 people watching him solve Kanoodle puzzles live on New Year’s Eve. It’s a very accessible game for people.

Well. Not all people… I’ve seen Billy Langsworthy try to do it. He just mashes the pieces on the tray with his fist. He’s like an ape with beans. That aside, has Kanoodle’s success on TikTok changed the way you look at products? Do you now automatically wonder whether something is TikTok-able?
We do – although I have to admit I’ve often looked at something and thought it’d never work on TikTok, only to be completely wrong. So what I’ve come to realise is that social media has really become what I would call interest media. It’s not about seeing what your friends had for dinner anymore… The algorithms are incredibly good at understanding what interests you; what you care about – which may be distinctly different from what interests me and what I care about – and serving each of us completely different things…

As a result, even products I’d never expect to succeed in that way find an audience online. So things really started taking off on TikTok in 2021… We leaned into it quite heavily, then TikTok noticed what was happening and invited us to become the first US toy company to launch on TikTok Shop during its beta testing in 2023. That took it to the next level… A few months later, TikTok opened its affiliate programme and things really exploded because creators could link products directly from their content.

So – again – the community more or less signposted the way forward?
Exactly. One creator, Danny Padilla, spotted Kanoodle in the affiliate centre. At the time, he mostly made music content, but he loved games. Because he’s a Dodgers fan, he tried the Shake Challenge using blue and white pieces. The video immediately took off – millions of views! Since then, he’s built a huge audience around Kanoodle, particularly on YouTube.

I love that! Now… You mentioned earlier, Lisa, how much you enjoy telling the Educational Insights story. That made me realise that I don’t actually know yours. How did you end up here?
I’ve been with the family of companies for almost 33 years. I actually joined Learning Resources as what I thought would be a bridge job. The company I was with before that was having financial problems, so I thought I’d just do this until I figure out what I really want to do.

So it’s just that the job hunt isn’t going very well?!
Ha! Exactly! I was very lucky, actually. I found a job advert for Learning Resources in the Chicago Tribune. They were looking for a catalogue coordinator and I thought, ‘I can do that!’ Later, Learning Resources acquired Educational Insights and – in 2009 – they asked me to move out to California to lead the brand here.

Do you ever wonder what you’d be doing if you hadn’t found that advert?
Oh! Well… I’ve always loved writing and fashion, so probably something connected with those.

Really? You write?
Only for myself!

Oh! I was hoping you were about to pull a manuscript out of a drawer… A musical about Kanoodle!
I wish!

Ha! Educational Insights has a compelling origin story as well, doesn’t it?
It does. It actually began with parents whose child was struggling to learn to read. They created a phonics product to help, and that eventually grew into Educational Insights. When Learning Resources acquired the company, the two businesses were incredibly aligned. Both were family businesses. Both were mission-driven. Both wanted to help children learn through play.

Mission-driven is an interesting phrase. That’s something I don’t think enough companies in our industry talk about…
I agree! And I think it’s one of the reasons people come to work here. People want to know they’re doing something worthwhile. We want to create products that bring joy, but we also want to make sure we’re doing the right thing – for children, for families and for customers.

Lovely! You know, ordinarily, I finish Mojo Nation interviews with a very particular question. For you, I’m curious about this, though: as a writer yourself, what’s the one question you think I could’ve asked you today that I didn’t?
Oh! Wow…Hmmm. You’ve really put me on the spot!

That was entirely the plan! I needed you to pause so I could get a drink of water. It’s sweltering here… I say water. It’s vodka. Good health!
Ha! Well, maybe you could’ve asked me: “What’s next for Kanoodle?”

Perfect! What IS next for Kanoodle?
I can show you, actually… This is Kanoodle Party. It’s our coffee-table version.

Oh, I love it! It’s beautiful!
It’s designed for multiple players, although you can still play it on your own. We really wanted it to feel like a party game. We’ve also got XL.

Good heavens! Look at the size of that! How big are the pieces? They must be like tennis balls! Ha!
Ha! They are huge! So, yes: that’s what’s next for Kanoodle. Party arrives first – that’s a Walmart exclusive coming in the fall.

Absolutely extraordinary. Thank you so much for making time for this, Lisa. And that’s the first 20 years of Kanoodle – looks like you’re just getting started!

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